Littleton, New Hampshire

Approved Budget Hearing Minutes Jan 18, 2010

LITTLETON BOARD OF SELECTMEN
LITTLETON HIGH SCHOOL CAFETERIA
159 OAK HILL AVENUE
MONDAY, JANUARY 18, 2010
7:00 PM BUDGET HEARING
MINUTES


Present: Chairman Eddy Moore, Vice Chairman Ed Boynton, Selectman Ron Bolt, Town Manager Chuck Connell, Finance Manager Karen Noyes, Executive Secretary Ceil Stubbings

Others Present: George Chartier, Judy White, Faye White, Art Tighe, Ed Haines, School Superintendant Tommy Stephens, Bob O'Conner, Ray Bowler, Regina Bowler, Linda Warden, Shari Brooks, Chris Tyler, Steve Kelley, Louise Smith, Mary Edick, Alison Bolt, Amy Austin, Tony Ilacqua, Brien Ward, Sharon Craigie, Joe Wiggett, Robert Blechl, Don Merrow, Bill Sencabaugh, Bill Kittredge, Jessica Daine, Jeanne Dickerman, Paul Smith, Jim Daly, Art McGrath, Linda Massimilla, Joe Mercieri, Janice Mercieri, John Streeter

Chairman Eddy Moore called the Bond Hearing to order at 7:00 PM.

The first order of business was the Pledge of Allegiance.

Moore then turned the hearing over Selectman Ron Bolt.

Selectman Bolt said that he just wanted to spend about sixty seconds to set the scene for the Town Manager who will present the details of the budget. Bolt said he wanted to explain the process to how we got to where we are tonight. The first thing they did was to seek the advice of the Board of Selectmen's economic advisor on both the overall and the local economic forecast. Mr. Ward was kind enough to do that and it was not a pretty story. Bolt said there was some ray of hope in all of it despite the economic trend. Bolt said you can really see it when you look around the Town of Littleton. Whether it is municipal or private construction, it has been pretty robust the last couple of years. Bolt said it is not the kind of thing you would expect to see in dire times. Bolt congratulated anyone that was involved in those positive activities. Bolt said the next thing they did is to advise the department heads that it did indeed look like it was going to be another grim year and we asked them once again to bring in the trimmest budget as they possibly could without jeopardizing essential services. Subsequently they met with the budget committee and they set a goal with a zero tax increase. Bolt said that was challenging for them but they would get into that more when they start to explain the details. Bolt said he wanted to congratulate all of the department heads for making additional cuts from the original proposed budget. We were able to defer some expenses and came up with another $130,000.00 of cuts. Bolt said that is where we stand right now and you have probably heard there are some other desires on behalf of the budget committee. We will be discussing that openly here tonight. Bolt said they feel this is a very spartan budget and that we really can't go any further without jeopardizing the services the town should maintain. Bolt said the board was encouraging your complete consideration of this budget and we hope that you support it.

Town Manager Chuck Connell said we are back again to discuss the 2010 proposed budget. Presenting tonight will be Eddy Moore, Chairman of the Board of Selectmen, Ed Boynton, Selectman and Ron Bolt, Selectman. Connell said he would be presenting as the Town Manager along with Karen Noyes, the Finance Director and Ceil Stubbings the Executive Secretary. Tony Ilacqua is responsible for the slide show presentation. Connell gave an explanation of all of the slide show presentations regarding the budget at this time. The presentation consisted of how much of the budget represented wages, benefits and the rest of the operating budget. Connell explained that wages and salaries are about 46% and everything else is about 54%. Connell said that before they approached the budget process this year they encountered some situations that were a little bit abnormal. The budget increases due to this resulted in a total amount of $453,039.00. In addition the bonds that were voted in two years ago amounted to an additional $200,000.00 of debt service. Connell explained that the other changes were how the state changed how they contribute to the fire, police and teachers retirement fund.

Connell went on to say that the economy has placed a very heavy demand on the welfare general assistance in the community and we felt that we needed to add approximately $40,000.00 to the welfare budget just to deal with the additional need and requests for service that the Welfare Director is experiencing. Because of the legal picture and the fact that the Trans Canada lawsuit continues to drag on we felt we needed to add $20,000.00 to the legal line. We had to add $25,000.00 to the salt and sand line to bring it back to the level that the highway department traditionally uses. We knew that we needed to add additional money for the Opera House expenses. This was for the alarm system and other needs in the amount of just over $26,000.00. This was over $450,000.00 before we even started the budget process. Connell said that the biggest thing facing the town was the ongoing negotiations with the two collective bargaining units. The first is the State Association that represents our Police Department. The second is the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees that represent the Fire, Highway Department and the Transfer Station. Connell said that as the negotiations began and as they progressed, one of the things that was readily apparent was the fact that the union representatives and the union negotiating team came to the table fully aware of and concerned about the economy. The union negotiators were concerned for the plight of the Littleton taxpayers. Connell said they were more concerned than they have ever been here in Littleton. He hoped the same was happening in other communities. They were very concerned about what we were doing. They were very aware of the negotiations that we were conducting and the effect they would have on the employees. To that end the negotiations were sincere and respectful and the union negotiators presented several ideas that were not only effective but also reasonable in retaining costs by the agreement. Connell then explained the slide show regarding each agreement and added that the agreements are good from April 1, 2010 through March 31st, 2013. Connell then explained each agreement as the slide show progressed. Connell advised that the Board of Selectmen has ratified both of the agreements. The final step is to take the agreements to the voters on Town Meeting Day for their approval. Connell then addressed the percentages of revenues the Town receives. The revenues consisted of the license fees, dog fees and other revenues collected by the Town Clerk. It also includes revenues from grants received and other sources and fees. Connell then walked everyone through the slides of the Town expenses.

Connell then directed everyone to look at the Budget Summary. Connell went down the Summary by department. Ray Bowler said that the chart that shows the revenues shows that the majority of the revenues come from property taxes.

Ray said that everything else, such as permits and fees are so small and that shows that the increase is being placed on the taxpayer. Ray said that it shows the lack of fees and the charges for services. Ray said that it is blatantly obvious from the chart that the selectmen need to look at fees and charges very hard. Selectman Bolt advised Ray that they are going to look at the fees. The selectmen have made a pledge to the budget committee and now to you about the things that we are going to address in 2010. Bolt said they would be looking at expanded sources of revenues.

Jerry Sorlucco said that New Hampshire has the most regressive tax structure in America. Jerry said that if we want to change that we need to talk to our legislature for other tax revenues. We need to think about an income tax, a sales tax and we need to think about a fairer tax structure. Connell said he understood what Jerry and Ray were saying but in all fairness the fairest state is New Hampshire. Connell said he was sorry that he did not bring the article where they ranked each state and New Hampshire was number one.

Connell then explained the executive offices as including himself, the Executive Secretary who is also the Welfare Director and the receptionist who is also the Deputy Tax Collector. Connell said the proposed budget reflects an increase over the default budget. The increase reflects the increase in health insurance costs. Connell said that exempt employees who are on salary would not be receiving a raise this year. The non-exempt employees who are on an hourly wage will receive a 1.5% increase. Connell then moved down to the second line, which represents the Town Clerk's Office. Connell said there are two permanent positions and between two or three part time positions because of an occurrence that occurred within the department last year. Connell said that this year there would be three elections whereas last year there was only one. Someone asked if the Town Clerk processes registration for other towns. The Town Clerk's response was yes but it is not a big-ticket item and it does contribute to the revenue. Connell then moved onto the Tax Collector. Connell said this line represents the salary of the Tax Collector and the other expenses related to tax collecting. Connell said this was also increased by $10,000.00 due to the health insurance. John Streeter asked if people were paying their taxes on time. Connell said the tax collector had to leave for another meeting but he had indicated that people were paying their taxes on time and he did not see any difference to date. Connell said the reason being is that most people have mortgages and their taxes are being paid by escrow accounts. Connell said he had to correct the amount of the increase for the tax collector to $2,000.00 because he had inadvertently looked at the wrong column.

Connell then went back to the Finance Administration line. Connell said this consists of Karen Noyes and one part-time permanent position. He then moved onto the assessing department and said the department consists of one full time employee. MRI is contracted to do most of our assessing. Connell said that the thing that you see outside of the budget is that we are set to do a town wide reassessment. Connell said the re-evaluation would be done by a $125,000.00 contract. Vision Appraisals will do the work. Connell said the last appraisal was done five years ago. Connell said that part of that money would come from a capital reserve fund that was established. Connell said the legal line ends up being the same amount that we had budgeted in 2009 in the amount of $95,300.00. Connell said the number was to have been reduced but they increased it because of the budget process. Connell said there is one lawsuit that is continuing on. Connell said the Personnel Administration line is not a department per say it is Karen who deals with pre-appointment physicals, training and to pay for unemployment taxes.

Connell said the Planning and Zoning Department consists of one person. Connell said the increase is from $64,000 to $70,000 because the difference is last year it was a nine-month position and now it is a full year position. Connell said General Government Buildings recognizes the maintenance that has to be done on our buildings other than the Opera House. Connell said this also applies to our equipment and the data processing that we do. Connell said this line is a decrease from $79,000 to $58,000. Connell said that is because the utilities for the Town Building shifted from this account into the Opera House line. Glenwood Cemetery Association deals with our grounds keeping and maintenance on the town cemeteries. Connell said it was not only the two on Union Street, but also the others around the town. Connell said they requested the same amount as they received last year $72,000.

Connell said the next line is town insurance and it deals with our property liability insurance and the deductibles. Connell said that we only had one deductable to pay out in 2009 and our goal is none. Connell said that Advertising and Publications includes the notices we send out, the Town Report and the Hearing Notices we place in the newspaper. This also includes our support from Channel 2.

Connell then moved onto the Police Department line. Connell said that in the proposed budget it is down approximately $28,000. This line provides for all of the employees, uniforms, vehicle repairs, wages and other essentials. Connell said that what is missing out of this budget is we will not purchase a new vehicle this year. .

Mary Edick said that she forgot to ask about General Government. Mary asked if the White Mountain Regional Airport why it was a warrant article in 2009, why is it in the budget now. Connell said it was a warrant article last year and since then we found out that the town of Littleton and several other communities entered into an agreement that assigns responsibilities to the communities. Connell said that it should have been in the operating budget last year. Connell said the amount is the same as it has been for a number of years.

Connell asked if there was anything he could tell about the police department. One citizen asked if the budget included the three officers that were being called into active duty. Connell said there are two officers that are currently deployed, both to Afghanistan. Connell said their salaries remain in the budget, for two reasons. First is the opportunity that if we are successful in recruiting full time temporary employees to fill their positions until their return. Connell said the other reason is if their deployment is cut short, we should be so lucky. Connell said regardless their money remains in the budget to cover their salaries upon their return. John Streeter asked if there were benefits for the full time temporary employees. Connell said yes.

Sharon Craigie asked about the Chamber of Commerce moving into the Opera House. She asked if we were going to still give them money plus the lease deal. Connell said yes. Connell said we are giving them a deal but they are actually paying for the deal. Sharon asked in what way. Connell said their lease payment is fifty percent cash and fifty percent management services for the performing venue. Sharon said that she would like an explanation of their management services. Connell said they would be responsible for the leasing of the performing venue. Connell said they would also be providing oversight for the entire building until the Historical Society moves back in or the town offices. Sharon asked how many have used the venue. Connell said they have had one use and have put a stop on it until we have the rules of the contract and leasing finalized. Connell said he expects the first draft will be presented to the town on the 1st of February and the final document would be ready by the end of February.

Shaun Grover asked if the salaries were taken out of the budget for the three patrolmen that are on deployment. Connell said there are two officers deployed to Afghanistan. Connell said that in August they would have two more officers on deployment. Connell said their salaries remain in the budget for two reasons. Connell said they are recruiting for full time temporary officers until our officers come back. Connell said secondly, if their deployment is cut short and we should be so lucky then they would be back earning their salary. Connell said that just for clarification the recruited positions are for full time temporary and they would only work forty-two hours a week and only until our officers return.

Connell then moved onto the dispatch line. It includes Grafton County Dispatch, Twin State Mutual and a telephone line that creates an instant connection to dispatch. Grafton County dispatches both police and fire. Connell said that Twin Mountain also dispatches fire because of an overlap in the coverage. Connell then moved onto the ambulance line. We are in the third year of a five-year agreement. According to the negotiated increase it goes from $79,000 to $82,120.

Connell then moved onto the Fire Department. The overtime was under budgeted in 2009. Connell said that despite the savings they were able to make on the overtime it goes from $72,000 that was budgeted in 2009 to $84,800 in 2010. Connell said that salary and benefits stayed pretty much the same with the exception of an adjustment regarding a legal settlement. Shaun Grover asked if the full time fire fighters would be working for nothing if the overtime line does not pass. Connell said if the call company could not cover the overtime hours it would then be offered to the full time employees. Connell said if they work they would have to be paid, they would not work for nothing.
Connell said the fire department feels this is a reasonable budget.

Connell then moved onto the Public Works Administration line. This line represents the highway department, the sewer department and other collaborative efforts. Connell said it includes funds for a number of engineering projects that are up coming. The engineering costs are an increase of $25,000, which is the difference between $82,000 in 2009 and $108,000 in 2010. Connell said that at one point the community had a professional engineer on staff. Connell said that position was lost. George Chartier fills the position and he is not an engineer. Connell said they have to rely on professional engineers for projects that we have. Connell gave an example of one of the projects as Highland Avenue. Some people call it a bridge and some people call it a culvert, no matter what you call it we need the wetlands permit and that is why we need the professional assistance. Timing is every thing. We will spend just over $4,000 to get the permitting done. Connell said they would save several hundred dollars as the rules are changing later this year. Connell said if they have the permits in they could move the project forward another year. Connell said permits are typically good for five years. Connell said that is the type of project we need to have engineering support. There are other projects that we need to have engineering support on as well.

Connell then moved onto the Highway Department. They provide the services so necessary this time of year. Everybody sees the guys out in the trucks at all hours of the day and night. Connell said the department is equally busy the rest of the year. They maintain the roads and do other projects. This budget provides the department with the materials they need and salaries. Connell said they would not be purchasing or leasing a vehicle in 2010. Connell said the next three lines are bridges, street lighting and landfill. Connell said there was not enough money to do the bridgework that has been deferred. Connell said there was about $3,000 and that was enough to make minor repairs to the covered bridge and the footbridge. Connell said that we know in the long term we have a lot of work to do to our bridges. Connell said that street lighting is pretty much a constant. Connell said they budgeted $42,232 for two years and we have come in very close. Connell said they still have a couple of bills outstanding.

Connell then covered the animal control line. Mary Edick asked who was doing the animal control. Connell said that right now it is the on duty police officers that provide animal control. Connell said right now we do not have an individual in the position. Connell said that is why there is only $2,100 there. Jerry Sorlucco said his concern is that the on duty police officer is not a dogcatcher. Jerry said we used to have a person in this position and now we don't. Jerry said that concerns him and we should have someone that is qualified to do that work. Sharon Craigie said the other thing to keep in mind is they are wearing their nice uniforms and we also need to think about the upkeep of our vehicles. Tony Ilacqua said there was a group working hopefully on a solution to this problem. Tony said they were hoping to come up with some donations of funds. Tony said those funds would be part of the police department's budget and be used for a person to perform the duties of the animal control officer. Connell said he was aware of that but the reason he did not bring it up is because he did not want to put the person interested in this in an uncomfortable position until they are ready.

Connell then moved on down to the welfare line. Last year was the first year that there were no personnel costs except for travel and training and expense reimbursement. Connell said that every dollar that you see in here except for $100 goes to people in need. Louise Smith asked if the welfare recipients repay the town by cleaning or working in other areas. Connell said they do not. The thought processes along those lines have changed dramatically over the last few years. There is a liability to the town having people work off the amount of assistance received and it is not favorable to the town. We do not have a work program for two reasons. The two are liability and supervision aspects of it. Connell said that some welfare clients do voluntarily pay some or all of the assistance they were given. Connell said that property owners have a lien placed against their property for that amount. Connell said the law changed one or two years ago that if the individual owns property anywhere in the state of New Hampshire we could put a lien against it. Jerry Sorlucco said that the amount given out seems low given the tough economic times. Jerry asked how that stacked up with other towns. Connell said the welfare department works with compassion and understanding but with complete accountability and that is why the number is so low. Ceil Stubbings said we are low compared to other towns with a similar population. One town's expenses were $282,000 for the year. Connell said the department diverts people to other agencies that have more money. Connell said that right now CAP is helping with the fuel assistance when that runs out it would come back to the town. Ron Bolt said the caseload is not down; it has tripled in the last three years. Connell said that in two instances the board of selectmen has had to divert money from one program into another. Connell said two of them were legal and the other was the welfare program. Connell then moved onto Patriotic Purposes. There is $1,500 in the line and it supports the veterans on Memorial Day and the departed vets that have recognition by virtue of flags and plaques.

Connell said the Conservation Commission's budget is up by about $1,000 this year and it is because of the licensing requirements for the Dell's Dam. Connell said that the money left over when the year has ended goes into a special fund for them. This year they are getting a dollar. They spent everything that was appropriated as well as the money they had in their reserves. Connell went on to talk about the Transfer Station. Connell said that in 2010 it is projected that the Transfer Station will generate $237,400 in revenues to help offset their expenditures. Connell said the next department was the library. Connell said the library is projecting an income of $80,910. Connell then covered the Parks & Recreation line. Connell said that last year both the library and the parks took significant cuts. Connell said the Parks & Recreation Commissioners chose to sustain those cuts. Connell said the library and the parks and recreation do a wonderful job with what they have to provide services to the community. Connell said our debt service payments are up this year. Principal and interest is about $238,000. This reflects the bonding that kicked in two years ago. Connell said there was a sewer bond paid off this year. Connell said it does not reflect in the budget because the user fees pay for the sewer.

Connell said that for the Opera House they are projecting $9,155 in revenue to help offset the expenses, which are primarily utility costs. It will also cover some minor equipment and other minor costs. Connell said they hope to improve the position as they begin to occupy the space and begin using the venue. Connell then talked about the Special Detail and explained that it is a special revenue account. Every dollar that is projected to be spent on outside details is generated by revenue from an end user. Connell said that parking meters are showing resurgence and they are expecting to take in $38,655. This will offset the expenses, which includes the Green Street Parking Lot, which Selectman Bolt spoke to earlier. Connell then said the sewer reflects the decrease in bond payments. Connell said there is some additional work that has to be done because of testing requirements. The sewer plant is still working to a CIP Plan, which has been very successful. Connell said that our track record shows that we have been very accurate with our expenditures and our revenues. To date we have collected 96.3% of the revenues and our expenditures we have paid out about 97% of what we projected. We still have expenses and revenues coming in and going out that are still attributable to 2009. Connell said that in a very lengthy nutshell that is the budget for 2010.

Chairman Eddy Moore then got up to speak and said that he feels the budget that they have presented is a good budget and one that he supports. However he said he feels he should go further along with this. Moore said that a couple of weeks ago the Budget Committee requested the selectmen to cut an additional $400,000 from the budget to get it back to a zero base. Moore said that in the past they have taken the roads and sidewalks along with different measures of this type to cut the budget. Moore said that all that does is delay the inevitable and things get worse instead of better. Moore said that he concluded with the Budget Committee in their presence when they voted to do this that he could see no other place to do it except for labor. Moore said that he had Connell put together a list that he knew they would need because he knew that sooner or later it would come to this. Moore said that what he was looking for from this meeting is input. Moore said that input is where he gets his direction. The three selectmen are not a broad representation of the community. Moore said the budget committee is a bigger representation of it but the people make up all of it as far as the vote is concerned. Moore said that what he has brought forward is a proposal. This is not a motion this is a discussion. Moore said that to be exact it is $420,435. Moore said it involves four firefighters, three police officers, two truck drivers and one transfer station employee to get to the $400,000. Moore said that he brought this forward so he could at least represent the budget committee on what he would do. Moore said he had no idea what their reaction would be. This is only his reaction to try to deal with that much money. Moore said if anyone has anything to say or offer then go right ahead and say it.

Jerry Sorlucco said this is nonsense. You are asking me to pay the second highest property taxes in the town and have my services reduced. Jerry said there is no proposal here to increase my taxes but you are going to reduce it literally by pennies and jeopardize my safety. It is stupid, get rid of the idea it is absolute nonsense.

Sharon Craigie told Moore that he is a town father and we have three town fathers. The budget committee is advisory only. They cannot set policy. You are the ones who set the policy. You thought the budget was fair. She does not know what changed in your mind. Sharon said she was at a board of selectmen's meeting where you said it was great and then you turn around and two weeks later you're on the radio and writing articles saying that we have to consider doing something like this for the budget committee. Sharon said she thinks it is outrageous. Sharon said she values as a taxpayer her services. Truthfully when she goes past the Opera House she asks what is she getting for her buck. Sharon said she is getting nothing, but with the fire department, public works and the police department she can see results. That's what she wants; she does not want to see the value of her property going down which it already has because of the economy. Sharon said the people looking to move here ask what are they going to get for services. We keep cutting and cutting and now we are cutting services. We need to look and see how we can save money in other ways. Sharon said that other budget committees in other towns don't go for the jugular. They don't go to get rid of people because they realize that service is what we are all about. Sharon said you have to see that you are the selectmen and you are the ones that set policy. Sharon said you have to use some good judgment you were elected because we thought you had some good judgment. Sharon told Moore he was going in the wrong direction by cutting services.

Linda Warden asked Moore why they were asking for the $600,000 for the Opera House. Linda said we don't need it this year. Linda said it would be very hard if we let our schools deteriorate any more. Linda said she would like for them to take it off of the ballot. Another citizen asked why the budget had been accepted by the selectmen and now there was some back peddling being done to cut $400,000. Moore said he was doing it out of respect for the budget committee. Moore said they wanted $400,000 cut from the budget and he had no other way to do it except to take it from labor. Moore said they wanted the tax rate to be the same as last year. Another woman said that she was a taxpayer and she would prefer to keep her services and said that she agrees with the other comments made earlier.

Rusty Bulis said he had a question about keeping the taxes somewhat level. Rusty asked Moore how it looked for next year because the town manager had said that we would be facing trying times and how we are doing the best that we can. Rusty asked if building permits and planning board activity would rise with the assessed valuation. Rusty then asked if our income would rise to maintain a fairly level tax rate and to continue to keep the level of services that we want. Moore said that one of the biggest challenges out there is the settlement with Moore Dam. Moore said he did not know what would happen to the tax rate in the future.

Brien Ward said that he could answer some of Rusty's questions. Brien said that from 2000 to 2006 we averaged twenty-seven new homes. Brien said that in 2007 that number dropped to twelve. In 2008 it dropped to eight and in 2009 it dropped to six. Brien said we are down 80% in housing starts. Our building permit income is down 60%. Brien went on to say that our motor vehicle registrations are down by $100,000. Brien said that between April 1st of 2007 and April 1st of 2008 we lost $40,000,000 of equalized valuation already. Brien said that this is the year where the whole town is being reassessed. Brien said the first tax bill would be one half of the last year tax bill; the second tax bill will be the adjustment on the values. Brien said that some have said the values have dropped 25% on residential properties. Brien said that his best estimate is that we are going to lose something between $100 and $170 million in the tax base not counting Moore Dam. Brien said that with Moore Dam there is about $100 million in dispute. Brien said that would be decided this year and the impact of that would be decided at the hearing. Brien said that what they do know from Tom Considine at the Water & Light Department is that the income of Moore Dam dropped 40% in the year 2009. Brien said the other aspect as far as the tax base, between 2008 and 2009 we lost $4 million in one year and we gained $4 million in the next. Brien said that as far as the tax base growing we have been flat. Brien said those are the economic indicators that we do have. Also the price of oil and gas has gone up.

Louise Smith said that regardless of all the facts and figures and the doom and gloom, she feels that the department heads have gone down to bare bones. She feels it was acceptable and she also feels nothing should be done with the budget. Louise said that in looking back to the 2008 tax rate, and the 2009 and 2010 projected, we are still below by .18 cents of the projected tax rate in 2008.

Sharon Craigie said she thinks nothing should be done to the budget, it was accepted by the selectmen and that is the way it should remain. A male citizen asked what is this going to save on the tax rate for the citizens of the town of Littleton. He then asked if we were going to cut eight to ten people for .13 cents. Moore said that first of all there was a difference in the tax rate then what we projected. Moore said that between 2009 and 2010 there is a .53 cents difference. Moore said that represents approximately the $400,000. Another woman said that she had been sitting there all-night and stewing about this and has decided to get up and speak. She said that on December 16th there was a fire at her house. She said the fire department; the police department and other people sitting here in this room all dragged themselves out of bed in the middle of the night in the freezing cold because she called 911. She said that she did not see any of you that are sitting up front there at her house that night. Quite frankly because of these people the house is still standing and they saved a part of Littleton's history not you guys. She then said when it comes down to salary why don't we cut down your salary.

Regina Bowler said she returned to this community twelve years ago. Regina said they lived out of the area for a long time. We chose this community because of the schools, because of the growth and the economy was rising. We have a beautiful library, excellent fire and police services and a good road crew. I work as a nurse in this community and I actively market Littleton as a good town. Whether it's recruiting pastors to a church or people to my company. Regina said she loves this town but she thinks the budget committee has come up with a ridiculous plan by cutting the things that make this town great. You have to have the people to run the town. We need the police and fire departments and it is not about .20 cents from this year's budget and the next.

A woman identified herself as one of the five families affected from the fire at Parker Village. She said that if it had not been for the fire and police departments she would have nothing. Right now all she and her two year old has are clothes. They saved the building but if you cut four of the firemen that whole building would have been burnt to the ground. You would have more than five families and ten children without homes. There are fifty apartments in that space and they managed to save all but five. She said she wanted to thank them for a very good job and her cat also lived through it. Another person who lived at Parker Village also spoke up about the wonderful work of the fire and police departments. Cutting the police and fire departments is unacceptable, he is a taxpayer and he helps the charities out whenever he can. He said he would not stand for having the fire or police department cut.

Tony Ilacqua said he is a town employee but he is going to use his first amendment right to freedom of speech. Tony said you should point out to people what services you are going to cut. Tony said that if you cut one person at his best estimate it is around $41,000, which includes benefits. Tony said his department could not run on four people they have a hard time running on five. Our services would have to be cut tremendously. Even the recycling would come up with a net loss. Tony said the budget went up in 2008 and went down in 2009. Things are starting to pick up. Tony said the prices in January are way up over last year. Tony said that people have been talking about fires. Tony said he wanted to talk about his life. Most people in town know that in the last year on two occasions without the fire department he would not be here. You guys are nuts!!

Linda Warden asked Moore to please make it clear that the budget committee did not make the recommendation that these positions be cut. Moore said that was correct. Moore reminded her that he stood right in front of her and told the committee what he would have to do. Linda said they never asked for anyone's job.

Ron Bolt said he had something that might move the conversation along. Ron said the tax rate was $20.83 in 2007, $21.80 in 2008 and $21.06 in 2009. Bolt said he is talking about the total tax rate that you pay. He was not breaking it down by town, state, county or school. Bolt said the average of those three years the tax rate was $21.23. Bolt said that today we are proposing $21.24. Bolt said he thinks that is pretty dam close. Bolt said we dropped from $21.80 to $21.06 last year. How did that happen? That happened because the school had a surplus that the school could not retain. So over $400,000 was taken off of the tax rate. Bolt said the town also had a surplus that the selectmen voted to reduce by another $200,000 so that is how you got another .74 cents reduced from the tax rate. Bolt said that if you look at the $21.80 and the $21.24 that we are proposing that is actually a decrease. We went into the budget negotiations with the budget committee and they set the bar pretty high. The items that the town manager reiterated earlier further exacerbated our challenge. We lost revenue sharing from the state, retirement contributions were lost and we have a huge additional debt service for all those items that were voted in two years ago. We had an increase in welfare and the legal lines. There has also been a decrease in revenues. Bolt said for just that alone that's $500,000 that should have been added to the tax rate. We also have an expense that we can't avoid this year and that is the town wide evaluation that is another $90,000 out of the current tax rate. Bolt said there are some expenses on the warrant articles that we believe are necessary. We have had to add $240,000 for road maintenance. That may sound like a lot of money but the agreement was that we were going to put $350,000 into road maintenance every year. Bolt said we did not do it last year and we are not doing it this year. Bolt said that when we start 2011 we would be two years behind on the road maintenance program. Bolt said there are also a number of petitioned warrant articles that we have no control over. Bolt said that if you add all of that up together that is $1.33 that should have been added to the tax rate. Bolt said that it was not added to the tax rate.

Bolt said that the Town Manager went through the bargaining agreements and we made significant savings there. Bolt said they decided not to put an additional $300,000 in the overlay, which is the money we have been setting aside pending the outcome of the Trans Canada lawsuit. Every department trimmed their budgets and many items were deferred. Bolt said that he thinks they have done as much as is humanly possible. Bolt said he personally does not favor layoffs and he does not think that Ed and Eddy do either.

Moore said that is why we have a public hearing to listen to what the public has to say. Moore said that the Deliberative Session is where the voters get to decide what to do. Moore said that he felt that tonight was the place to bring something like this up. Moore said that everything he has heard about cutting the budget is that everyone is against it.

Steve Kelley thanked everyone for coming. Steve said that he has been to a number of budget and bond hearings over the years. There have been some years when no one is present, other than the members of the budget committee and the selectmen. Steve said it was nice to have people here and watching channel 2 and paying attention to what they are doing. Steve said the budget committee doesn't do this for fun or to take time away from their family and friends. Steve said it is a hard job and in fairness to the budget committee they are very dedicated. Steve said that no one on the budget committee relishes making recommendations to town cuts. There is no axe to grind and no personal agendas. Steve said the job that they are doing is for the citizens of the town of Littleton. Steve said he was sure that everyone watched the national and the state news. Steve said that what is happening here is no different than out of the ordinary. Steve said that there are layoffs all over the state. People can see that the governor is struggling with his staff trying to control the costs. This is nothing new or unique to us. Steve said that he believes other towns and states have all had to make tough recommendations. Steve said the gross numbers are not bringing us to where we want to be. Steve said the committee is not running the town, they are not the department heads and it is not easy to know where the money is or isn't. The committee knows they can deal with tax rates and valuations. The sad fact is those numbers that are being presented right now are overly optimistic. It is probably going to be worse. When the tax rate is set in the fall of 2010, which is a tax increase in itself. Steve said he thinks it is going to be a day of reckoning for all of us. Many of us can afford to pay the bill but unfortunately there are going to be some in our community who won't be able to. Steve said he appreciates the sentiment and that everyone got off the couch tonight to be here. Steve said he did not want people to go away thinking that the budget committee was nine people that were just conspiring to undermine the services of the town of Littleton. We can only afford to pay for what we can afford to pay for and that is it. Steve said maybe for this year some will say they could stand the numbers being presented. Steve said he was not saying it could not be doable this year, but he wants to tell everyone that it will be worse next year and the following years. At some point in time even the most generous of taxpayers are going to say enough is enough. They are going to want some alternatives. The only thing the budget committee is doing is trying to be ahead of the curve on this. We are not going to be the people that told you this three years from now. This is a tough situation and the way the town is set up it is very expensive to operate. Steve said the committee does not think this is a sustainable situation moving into the future. In defense of the budget committee, we have worked very hard at this and asked a lot of questions. We did a lot of research to fully understand what it takes to run the town of Littleton. We would like you to respect our work and us. We are only telling you this is because we think it is what you need to hear. We are not telling you because of any other reason but because we believe it to be fact. Steve said that what we are telling you is most like going to be found truthful in the future.

Jerry Sorlucco told Steve Kelley that he was not elected, he was appointed. Jerry said that Steve was making assumptions that people were agreeing with him and his assumptions. Jerry said he did not agree at all. Jerry said that Steve said it was a vote of the committee and he was told that it was not a vote. Jerry asked if Steve to confirm if there was a vote for the assumptions they were presenting.

Steve said he appreciated Jerry's comments but what Steve told him was fact. All of us in the town of Littleton pride ourselves on running a tight ship. We pride ourselves on paying our bills and meeting our obligations. We do that in our private lives and when we come together as a committee we do it as a committee. We expect in our private lives to meet and pay our obligations. We expect to present to the town a similar budget that we as citizens will be able to afford. That is the bottom line of it, we are doing a hard job and there is no BS here. We just want to do a good job sometimes the result is not something you want to hear. It is not always something we want to hear either. Steve said this is reality. Jerry Sorlucco asked if there was a vote. Steve said there was a vote of the committee to have a zero tax increase this year over last year. Jerry said there is no tax increase. Steve said we are talking about the town for 2010. Steve said that in the tax increase that Selectman Bolt referred to he was talking about the school, town, county and state. Steve said they don't have any control over the county or the state. But they do have control over the school and the town. Steve said they gave the school the challenge of meeting a zero tax increase. Steve said they were asking the town to come in at the $6.90 that they were at last year. Jerry said he still has not heard if there was a vote on this cut. Steve said there was a vote to stay at the same tax rate. There was no vote as to how to do that. There were no votes on cutting positions or departments.

Kim DeLutis said that ten peoples lives would be affected. The ramifications of ten people losing their jobs in Littleton would be devastating and have a huge trickle down effect. Steve said it would have been nice if that money could have been found elsewhere other than in positions. Kim told Steve that he was not looking at the fact that the taxpayers are willing to spend the $400,000. Steve said the budget committee did their job and analyzed the budget and that is what they came up with. Steve said it was up to the selectmen and the administration to see if they can achieve that goal. Steve said that people have come here tonight to air their thoughts on it. Steve said that obviously on voting day there would be about another 2,500 to 3,000 people who will come and cast their votes. Steve said that regardless of the opinions expressed it does not mean that what the committee did was not right. What the committee presented is based on facts.

Linda Massimilla said that it is not always about money. If it were her emergency she would want immediate response and she would want qualified people. Linda said that after listening to some people who have needed a response, it sounds to her like we have that. She asked Steve why would he want to cut qualified personnel at this juncture. Linda said it made no sense. Steve said if that is what the town of Littleton feels then that is what it will end up being. Steve said that does not mean when the committee analyzed the budget and the financial reality that is facing us today we knew we had to tell the school and the town that they had to come up with a zero tax increase. Sharon Craigie asked Steve if he drafted a letter recommending cuts in personnel. Steve said he made up a list of various suggestions from members of the budget committee. Sharon asked if there was a vote on that with the committee.

Jessica Daine said that Steve collected a lot of their thoughts. Sharon asked if the committee was all in agreement on the letter. Jessica said they did not vote on the letter. Jessica said they did vote that layoffs should be considered. Jessica said that what the committee sensed is that it is going to snowball. Jessica said that something needs to be looked at in advance. She was not saying that Eddy Moore was right. She is not saying that we need to cut that dramatically. Jessica said we should anticipate changes in the way we run our town.

Bill Kittredge said the committee also looked at ways to combine departments. Sharon Craigie said she read on the list where they had considered having the Town Manager be the Tax Collector. Sharon asked if they were considering having the Fire Chief also be the Zoning Officer and letting people go at the transfer station and having George from the Highway Department help with the work load. Bill said those were just considerations that we wanted people to look at. Sharon said it was very responsible of him and thanked him. Mary Edick asked if the budget committee looked at the fact that from eight in the morning until eight at night there is a population of eighteen thousand people. Mary said it is not just only the 6,000 residents that are being served by the fire and police departments. Mary said the selectmen have indicated that next year they are going to look at charging fees. Mary said we need the fire and police departments.

Regina Bowler said she wanted to direct her comment to the Chairman Eddy Moore. Regina said that ever since Steve came to the podium to speak he took charge of the microphone and the meeting. Regina said she was embarrassed and angry. The issues of what this budget committee worked very hard to do are very clear and your agenda is a little different then what the committee has worked to accomplish. Regina said that what is going on here is completely out of control of what we initially set out to do. From the beginning of the bond meeting and until now the tie together is that buildings like the Opera House are on a much higher priority for the budget committee then the people that service this town. Regina told Steve that she had lost respect for him that he came up and took over applauded himself and the committee and thanked us all for getting off of our rear ends and coming to this meeting tonight. Regina said we are all contributing members of the community and we thank you for working hard. Regina said she was personally insulted by the way he treated them and for the people who were watching this on channel 2 and the way you are pushing through your own agendas here. Steve said there is no personal agenda and he feels badly if she perceives it that way.

Steve thanked everyone for their comments and said that the only reason he came up to speak is because the work of the budget committee is not exactly applauded. Steve said he did not want people to leave with the impression that we were a rogue group trying to push our agendas that are not in the best interest of the town of Littleton. We were just trying to be sensitive to the economic realities that we are facing. We were trying to give the benefit of that knowledge to the town and the administration.

Chairman Eddy Moore said that he thinks he has heard enough tonight and from different areas in the community. Moore said he realizes that those that have spoken are not speaking for everybody. Moore said that he is going to stand on his decision and not implement any of these suggestions. Moore said he would not consider it this year and he does not feel that people are ready for any layoffs.

Vice Chairman Ed Boynton said he has sat back all night and listened to a lot of rhetoric. Boynton said that having been a former member of the budget committee he understands what they go through. They work diligently and extremely hard on this budget. It was suggested at the beginning of the process we try to come in level funded and we all agreed to try and meet the goal. Boynton said he concurs with Moore and Bolt, he does not want any layoffs either. Boynton commended the budget committee for a job well done. It is not an easy job and they do it voluntarily. They travel to the meetings and many last two to three hours long. Boynton said he noticed that Chief Smith was in attendance for this hearing. Chief Smith comes to a board meeting and presents the VIP's with awards and what not. Boynton said these other people never get any recognition, which is why he knows how hard they work. Boynton told Linda Massimilla that when they made the proposal about the Opera House at that time they did not know about the $400,000 recommended cut. Boynton said that is why they went ahead with it at the time. There is no other place to cut. We just don't have any other places to cut. Boynton said when the committee came back and asked to cut another $400,000 it is not there. The only place to cut is in labor. Boynton said we don't really want to cut anyone's job but he believes in democracy. Tonight we do not have a consensus of this community what so ever. Boynton said he was going to suggest to anyone here lets say we go along with this $400,000 cut. If we cut the budget we know what is going to happen. It is going to be layoffs. Boynton said you could support the default budget. Boynton said you go to the polls and vote for the default budget but tonight you have around one hundred people in this room we are not getting the consensus of the 2,800 voters in this community. Boynton said if you want to do it that way we put it to the voters and let them decide. Boynton said we still live in a democracy and that is what he would like to see happen. Boynton said he would not vote for it and he has no intentions of laying anyone off. The voters should have a right to speak at the ballot. A citizen asked what was the purpose of a public hearing if you're not going to listen to us. Boynton said he was only offering a suggestion he told them how he stands on it. Boynton said it is an opportunity for the public to also have a say in it.

Dave Wentworth thanked the budget committee for trying to come in at a level budget. Dave said that he has concerns with some of the suggestions that they came up with. The one the board came up with was getting rid of somebody but it sounds like it was a three page list of things that maybe did not come up to $400,000. He commends the budget committee for what they are trying to do but is disappointed in the board for grasping onto the idea of getting rid of ten people. It seems like an easy out to him. Dave said he also suspects that they knew there would be outrage so they tipped their hand up and said they gave it the good old college try and the citizens don't want it. Dave said it is an easy way out and it just reinforces a couple of years ago when he stood up here and when there were some other issues. Dave said Boynton was right there are only one hundred people here but the other 6,000 people could have given up three and a half hours of their life just like everyone else here to save it. Dave said he does not trust his town government and he thinks this was underhanded. Trying to get rid of ten people was not the way to try and resolve this when there was a three-page list with other alternatives. Dave said shame on the selectmen. He said he wants to trust the people he voted into position but he just doesn't. This never should have been brought up without looking at other options.

Shari Brooks got up to speak. Shari said she also works for the town in the police department and she is also a volunteer in police services. Shari said that she works closely with the police and she knows most of the guys on the fire department. She said she is a traffic controller when they need help on a fire. Shari said that everything that she sees coming from these people that we are supposed to have faith in is that not one of you take a good look at the jobs that we do. Shari said we and she was going to put it as we because she thinks 90% of them would agree with her our moral is so bad because of the board sitting up there. Shari said that half of the people don't even want to work for this town any longer but do it because they have no where else to go. And now you want to lay ten of us off, she said she could not imagine where their brains are. They must be on the backside where you are sitting. It is totally ridiculous. You don't even come around and talk one on one with us. You talk with department heads and that is it, why don't you come and walk in our shoes for a day? Shari told the board they should get up in the middle of the night when there is a body in the road because of a slippery road or because an accident occurred because of a drunk driver. You guys get up in the middle of the night and perform some of the services we do. Shari said we don't ask for your gratitude because we know that we are not going to get it. Shari said it is very disgusting how this town is operating and she has lived here all her life. She has never seen the town being run so bad and even have a board that makes fun of us excluding Ron Bolt because he just joined it. You have run this town down so bad. You want to lay people off then why don't you start right in your own office. You don't need all those people in there and you don't need to be open five days a week. There are other towns that are bigger than us that run their town on a three-day basis. So if you want to start laying people off start at your own home because that's where it belongs.

Town Manager Connell said the sentiment has been expressed but we are getting to the point where we are getting into personalities rather than dealing with the issues before us. Unless someone else has something to say that has not already been said, Connell suggested they move on because their job tonight is not done. Ron Bolt said he had one more thing to say at this point. Bolt said he has already mentioned a couple of these things earlier but he would like to look to the future and give you some cause for optimism. The board of selectmen has agreed to the following steps that we will do this year. He had already mentioned that they are going to look for additional ways to come up with revenue. We are also going to look at the efficiency of our operation to include looking at staffing and the organization of town employment. Bolt said they are also going to have a capital improvement plan. Bolt said that would be an attempt to take these big-ticket items in the capital assets and spread them out over a ten to twenty year period. Bolt said this would stop the spikes where we are asking you to pay for two or more projects in one year. We will also look at ways to share services and this will be a continuing effort. We will be doing this with the school and we will also be doing this with other towns. Bolt said they would also, and this is his favorite because it gets to the nub here, we are going to attempt to come up with a definition of what people think is an acceptable level of service. Bolt said we throw that phrase around all the time. It might mean one thing to Tony and it might mean something different to Mr. Streeter. Bolt said we need to put some meat onto that so when we get to something that is going to effect the level of services we will have a definition of where we are drawing the line. That may be the response time or the number of times something is done or a change in the hours of operations. Bolt said they are going to make a good faith effort on this. Bolt said those are the things we have pledged to do this year. Bolt hoped the public would offer their support for their efforts in that area.

Brien Ward said we have had a spirited discussion here and he thinks it is one of the things that we as a community and he means all of us, have to come to grips with something that the budget committee has already done. Brien said we have the eleventh highest tax rate in the state according to the DRA. There are over two hundred and twenty communities that have lower taxes then we do. Brien said he looks at many of our dedicated employees that live in other towns but work in Littleton. They know they live in other communities and pay lower taxes because they have lower services. Brien said we have again the eleventh highest. When we went to zero percent increase and just to let you know the only town in the North Country that has higher taxes than us is Berlin. Bolt said that was equalized. Brien said yes equalized no matter what you say. Bolt said the tax rate in Bethlehem and Lisbon is not the point and he was not sure if a lot of people understand what an equalized tax rate is. Bolt said they know what their tax bill is. Brien said the state sets the tax rate and equalizes them so that everybody is treated the same. Bolt said again he does not think people care about the equalized tax rate. Bolt said people care about what their tax rate is going to be. Brien said the budget that has been presented to you has an eight per cent tax increase upon our seniors who are getting no increase. Brien said that is a burden to them. Now lets go over the last couple of years. Brien said that in 2008 the taxes went up about five and a half per cent. In 2009 they were projected to go up by an eleven per cent tax increase. Brien said that as Mr. Bolt described the selectmen allocated $200,000 to the surplus and also reduced the overlay that allowed it to drop to two and half percent. Brien said the one guy that knows the number better then any of us is Stan Fillion who is not here tonight. Stan is a native of Littleton and a CPA and comptroller at the Littleton Coin Company. Brien said that Stan told the Town Manager, the budget committee and the selectmen that the spending increases and the tax burden that we are bearing right now is unsustainable. Brien said that when we leave here tonight please get over what he would call denial. We need collectively to come up with ideas to reduce the cost of government. Brien said that Steve put together a list of ideas the budget committee came up with. Maybe some of you have ideas. Brien said that the idea in the middle of this economic time that we are going to be raising taxes on our seniors by eight percent is wrong. Brien said the information that was given is incomplete; you cannot take it to the bank. Number one it does not include any increase to the schools. The county is also going to be implementing a $34 million jail. Brien said the number that they are giving you is not the tax number that you are going to get. So please come up with some ideas and give them to the office. We have to change the way we are doing things.

Sharon Craigie said that Brien was the cheerleader for getting all the big box stores into town. When you have all of that in town you need the services. Sharon said services cost money but as long as we have as many people as we do coming into town that are not even living here but they come here on a daily basis we have to provide the services whether you like it or not. Connell said they needed to move on. They have spent most of the time talking about one warrant article and the operating budget. Connell said this is a budget hearing and several people have alluded to the fact that there are several other items that figure into the budget. Connell said that by his count there are forty-three warrant articles and we have talked about one of them. Connell said he would like to propose that on February 1st we have our Deliberative Session. Every warrant article will be discussed in detail at the Deliberative Session. Connell said that in the interest of time and the fact that we have lost the majority of our audience. Having said that may I suggest that I will answer any question as best as I can about any single warrant article. Connell asked if there were any questions. No questions were asked and Connell then turned the meeting back over to Chairman Moore. Connell had one more statement to make about the warrant. He advised it was a draft and there had been mistakes in spelling that would be corrected. Connell gave an example of the mistakes, such as the number would say $10,000 but the word would say ten thousand five hundred. Rusty Bulis asked what was the amount for the social service agency warrant articles. Connell said they have gone up. Connell said he would say it is between $120,000 and $125,000. Chairman Moore asked for a motion to adjourn. Vice Chairman Ed Boynton made the motion to adjourn. The motion was seconded. The budget hearing adjourned at 9:53 PM.

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